Kink in the Gym

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[00:00:48] Intro

[00:00:48] Craig: Hello and welcome again to the Kinky Boys podcast. I'm Craig. And this month we are talking about kink in the gym because it's January, so of course the gym is quite topical right now. Joining me as co-host is my master, David. Hello David.

[00:01:09] David: Hi everyone.

[00:01:10] Craig: You may remember him from past episodes on hypnosis and our bonus episode on clothing and nudity, which seemed to be quite popular, so,

[00:01:20] David: which is very exciting for me because it means I get to play around with more naked guys.

[00:01:26] Listener Mail

[00:01:26] Craig: Oh, and that's, fun. Trust me. So, yeah, so I actually put out on the social media, like mastered on Twitter, all of that calls for people to write in about this topic because I figured people may have some fun experiences. So I think start the show off by reading in listener email. We got over this, and then use that as a jumping off point to sort of go through the various topics we've got lined up.

So James has written in and James has said, if I can find it, Okay, so I have so many thoughts about this. For porn scenarios, they're okay. I guess he's referring to the gym but it's usually just a brief starter, which rather quickly changes into full-blown regular sex rather than any kind of actual quote, erotic workout.

If you want to show me a full on erotic workout, then that might be a bit different. I always seem to find the dull sex on the gym bench ones. I'm also insanely jealous of getting an empty gym in which to do it. I'm guessing the appeal of it is that it's usually two muscled or toned guys going at it too.

Again, often it's only certain body types in the videos. For me though, I find it very difficult to watch, not because of the bodies. Well, I'm mostly over my jealousy issues these days, except of course, jealousy of an empty gym. but because one, there is no way you got those muscles doing those exercises, brackets, Roy's heads, especially two.

Most of the guys in the videos seriously need to work on their form and technique. Three, trust me, if your dick has enough blood to get you hard, your workout isn't pumping your blood to the muscles you're allegedly working. I've started to get guys asking me if they can watch me work out now as I now have a mini home gym set up.

I suppose if they find that erotic, then fine, but I think they're expecting to see central and sex rather me getting very red-faced and out of breath by the last rep. I suppose there's also the difference between erotic workout and a naked workout. I think naked yoga is probably more likely to be aesthetically pleasing than a proper naked workout, but that's just me forced workouts.

I guess if you keep the weights light and the guys in charge actually understands things, they're fine. My brain can see so many injury possibilities in there. If someone wants me to do a full on neurotic scene involving weights though, if, I mean I've got to play with a muscle guy, just set up the camera and I'll happily do it.

Smiley face, James

[00:04:20] Is the Gym Sexy?

[00:04:20] David: so I just wanna mention as well that I have done a couple of remote scenes where I've had someone do a workout in front of a camera

and personally I find that very erotic and it doesn't need to have any sort of like sexual content per se. For me, it's just, I mean, as we talked about last time, I enjoy seeing people's bodies and in particular, I enjoy seeing the muscles.

I enjoy seeing people work them and sweat and see how far they can push their bodies. If I can be there in person to inspect and touch so much, the better. But even if I can't, just seeing someone working and putting in all his efforts to get stronger, especially if it's because I want him to,

[00:05:10] Craig: Mm-hmm.

[00:05:11] David: very fun power dynamic for me.

[00:05:14] Craig: Oh yeah, I can definitely see that it, there's something I wanted to touch on here cuz James talks about he can't see it being erotic unless like it's made to be sexual or there's an active component of sex involved. I have to say I kind of disagree. Like you say, the fundamental of just observing someone in that scene and setting, especially with like nudity involved has an inherent eroticism and the gym is this weird place because it's sexy without being anything to do with sex,

[00:05:56] David: Well, I think maybe it doesn't have anything to do with sex, but it does have quite a lot to do with image, and particularly with body image and the way that people see themselves. There is definitely this jock boy stereotype, the idea of a guy who goes to the gym very frequently because he wants to have a sexy, muscular body.

And there's always that idea of, you know, these guys checking themselves out in the mirror, making sure that they're fully jacked as much as possible. And some people see that as. Eyerolling cliche, but I have to admit that sometimes it can also be very sexy to see a ver, to see a guy whose body you find very attractive to see him looking in the mirror and checking himself and adjusting himself and noticing all the parts about his body that you notice as well.

Or to have a little bit of like eye flirtation in the mirror. You know, looking at my body. Looking at your body, sort of stealing a glance here and there. That can be a lot of.

[00:07:01] Craig: Oh yeah. And I mean, going internally for a bit like an after workout pump can feel really good and make you feel really confident.

[00:07:13] David: Absolutely.

[00:07:14] Craig: like you are feeling your body in this state where it's tensed up and full of energy and you know, you can see mo parts of your muscles bigger and more defined. I think it was Arnold Schwarzenegger who said, cuz.

He famously had a ritual where he would abstain from sex before doing body building shows. And he said, don't you miss it? And he was like, well, the feel of a pump is better than an orgasm to me.

[00:07:44] David: Hmm.

[00:07:44] Craig: And I wouldn't go that far. Yeah, I wouldn't go that far, but I can sort of appreciate the mindset.

[00:07:52] David: See, it's interesting for me because like I've done a lot of hypnosis work around helping people to become more focused at working out in the gym and more motivated to go and so on. But for a long time, I myself did not go to the gym hardly at all. And I attribute that partially to laziness, but actually largely I discovered my biggest impediment was not knowing what to do once I got to the gym.

But at a certain point, about a year, maybe a year and a half ago or so, I made the intentional decision that this just wasn't okay with me to, to be, you know, helping all of these other people to work out so regularly, but not to have this experience myself. . And so I started going to the gym very regularly myself, and I have to say like a lot of these things that people talk about with going to the gym, like the post-workout pump, I did not feel that for a very long time, probably for the first six or eight months or something like that, that I was going to the gym.

I didn't feel pumped after the gym. I just felt exhausted So that wasn't particularly, I think it just took a very long time for my body to start actually changing. And most of those changes weren't initially visible, but over time some of them have started to become more visible. And I can see some of the ways that my body has changed with the effort that I've been putting into the gym.

And that's also fun. And it's especially exciting when someone else points out those changes in your.

[00:09:32] Craig: Oh yeah. Like I remember last time I visited you in person and obviously it had been a while since I last saw you in person and it was so noticeable, like the changes in your body. It was

[00:09:46] David: Mm-hmm.

[00:09:48] Craig: really interesting to see.

[00:09:50] David: Yeah, and I'm glad that you noticed that, and I'm glad that you told me because it made me really happy. To hear that from you essentially,

[00:10:01] Craig: And, and I like making you happy sir.

[00:10:04] David: good boy. But going back to this whole kink discussion, like I, I do want to say that it's all well and good to talk about things like how exciting and how good that post-workout pump feels.

But I also don't want people to have over-inflated expectations because I certainly. I was certainly hoping that, you know, I would start this new gym routine and in maybe two weeks or a month or something like that, I would start showing results. And yeah, it took a lot longer than that. And it was miserable at the start going through that.

But now that I've been doing it more, it's become easier and it's also become. more routine to go to the gym and to push myself a little bit harder each time, and I don't know if I would say that it's kinky or erotic, but knowing that I'm making an intentional change to my body and knowing that the changes are happening, even if I don't always see them.

Is sometimes exciting when I think about it, and I imagine it sort of like what you've told me, Craig, from your experiences of being hypnotized regularly and slowly noticing changes to your own mind and thought patterns.

[00:11:26] Craig: Yeah. It is that realization that something is happening to you. And obviously from my point of view, something that's essentially being driven by someone else is deeply exciting. And I know a lot of guys have a very big fantasy about like Arzhur or a Dom. Essentially. Running their life in a way where they get buff from it

[00:11:53] David: Mm-hmm.

[00:11:54] Craig: or they

[00:11:54] David: I mean that, that essentially is the forced where God fantasy isn't it.

[00:11:59] Craig: Oh yeah. Yeah. It's basically my, I mean, to look at it cynically, it's my dom replaces my need to have self-discipline cuz someone else is disciplining me instead.

[00:12:15] David: which that's not the way it works, but it's a fun fantasy I suppose.

[00:12:19] Craig: Oh yeah, definitely. And.

[00:12:22] David: I know that when I've been playing around with this sort of thing, when I've been helping people to change their habits around working out or eating well or something like that, I always emphasize to them that what I'm doing is giving you a little nudge in the right direction. But this is not like a push that you can't resist.

This is just a nudge. This is a little reminder of, Hey, you should be doing this. Ultimately, you are the person who has to make the decision to put in the time and the effort to do the exhausting work of working out and changing your body over time. it can be demotivating. When you realize that even having a dom to push you doesn't mean that it's easy.

Quite the opposite. The dom is pushing you to do the things that are hard, but it is exciting to see that the effect of this over time is having an impact on your body and by extension on your perspective of yourself.

[00:13:25] Craig: Yeah, that's very true. I find it very odd because you, what tends to happen with people if they can keep a a regular gym routine is they won't be able to see the changes for months, and then there'll just be this po tipping point when they look at themselves and realize, actually I look really different now.

And I had never noticed that before.

[00:13:51] David: Mm-hmm. I think it's like the, the parable of the frog boiling in the pot, that if you just turn up the heat very, very slowly, they don't notice. I guess it's the same thing with changes to your body. When you see yourself every day, you don't notice those changes until a certain point where suddenly something jumps out at you that you didn't notice before and you're like, oh, actually there is a difference here.

My arms look bigger in a more muscular way. and that can be really,

[00:14:23] Craig: Yeah. Oh, it's definitely cool. One thing I'd like to go back to about James' letter, he talked about how like the gym isn't sexy when people are sort of grunting and sweating. And again, I disagree and I think this is part of why the gym can feel sexy without being directly related to sex is having these guys just. really angry and huffing and puffing and red in the face and like gritting their teeth as they're working. That, that feels like a sort of substitute for like expressing sort of aggressive sexuality in a way.

[00:15:09] David: Are you saying that men channel their emotions into lifting iron,

[00:15:13] Craig: Oh yeah. That's why your muscles get big because you put all your emotions into them.

[00:15:21] David: I can see how like the stereotype of the, the grunty almost or ish guy at the gym can be very appealing in certain ways. At the same time, I think it really depends on not only the person whose behavior you're observing, but it also depends on your own perspective and your own thoughts For this sort of thing, for myself, like I work out at a gym that has had a problem.

People going there and getting super angry and taking out their anger in the form of aggression towards like the gym staff. So when I see someone who is making a big show of lifting weights that are clearly too heavy for him and you know, huffing and puffing and grunting, I've learned that I probably wanna stay away from that person because I've had situations where they have like thrown the weights at people.

[00:16:19] Craig: Really? Oh God.

[00:16:21] David: So I guess it depends on the level of intensity that you're looking for with this sort of thing.

[00:16:28] Craig: Oh yeah. Yeah. For me, it's more just like a visual signifier. I'm not actually looking for angry men

[00:16:35] David: Yeah, yeah. As I said, some people channel their emotions into lifting weights. That is not always healthy to do, to be honest. But it can give you some extra power, which I know is what some people are looking for. Pers personally, my, the, the style of weightlifting that I've adopted from working with a personal trainer is not focused on lifting the heaviest weights that I possibly can handle, but going for something lighter, but trying to do it slowly and with a lot of control.

And so when I see usually like younger kids who are taking on more weight than they can handle and doing it really, really quickly, that makes me think, oh, these people don't know what they're doing. , which anytime I think that it makes me feel like I don't want to have anything to do with this person in the gym, in the bedroom, or anything like that.

I would much prefer to play with people who have a better idea of what they want and aren't going to just blaze past their limits and hurt themselves.

[00:17:38] Craig: Oh yeah. Like the common sense is sexy

[00:17:43] David: Yes,

[00:17:46] Craig: because it is, it's that double-edged sword of there is a lot of peacocking that sometimes goes on in the gym.

[00:17:52] David: A hundred percent. And again, that can be exciting when you see guys showing off for themselves and showing off for other people. You just have to be aware that they may or may not be doing things correctly.

[00:18:11] Craig: Yeah, it, it's often more about consistency and like going it slow helps. Like a lot of people, when they're doing these big heavy lifts, they cheat, they use momentum, they swing their bodies.

[00:18:25] David: Mm-hmm.

[00:18:26] Craig: and it's not good for you, like you will end up hurting yourself.

[00:18:30] David: Yes.

[00:18:32] Muscle Worship

[00:18:32] Craig: So one of the things we've got on a little list is, speaking of peacocking in the gym, is muscle worship,

[00:18:40] David: Mm-hmm.

[00:18:41] Craig: which obviously gyms muscles very heavily. So I think we should talk about muscle worship for a bit.

[00:18:48] David: Absolutely. And as a prelude to this, I also want to say there are many different body types that are sexy. . You can be sexy with muscles, you can be sexy without muscles, but there's definitely a fetish or a kink for guys who are very, very muscular. And I think that's more of the fetish that we're talking about in this situation.

When we're talking about muscle worship, we're talking about this sort of platonic ideal of a person whose muscles are as big as they can realist, realistically be, and maybe even bigger than that. . Certainly you're going to find guys more trending in that direction when you go to the gym, which can be very sexy, can also be very hard on your own ego when you compare yourself to them and you realize you're not that.

I have gone through that as well. But I have also definitely like. working out next to another guy in the gym who has clearly been doing this for many years more than I have, whose body is essentially a Greek Adonis. And I have fantasized about the idea of, you know, him and me being alone together and me just licking and worshiping and exploring all of his body.

And that can be really hot. I will also mention something that's only tangentially related to all of this, but it's a fun story anyway which is the gym that I work out at has a gang shower system in the men's locker room, meaning that it has several shower heads side by side without any separators in between.

[00:20:29] Craig: Old school gym showers. Yeah.

[00:20:33] David: So you can have several guys showering next to each other, fully naked, and you can sneak a peek or two while you're doing that, which is always fun. There was one experience I had when I was finishing up with a workout, taking a shower, and there was one other guy who was in the shower with me and.

He was naked, except this was the first time that I had seen a guy in the gym shower wearing a cock ring.

[00:21:07] Craig: Really.

[00:21:08] David: Yes. So I was taking my showers, sneaking a couple of peaks, and as I was finishing up, I casually commented on it. I said, you know, nice cocking. And we had a quick little conversation, both of us fully naked him talking about how, yeah, he just really enjoys wearing it.

And then he sort of looked left and right to verify that we were alone in the locker room and said, so do you wanna suck it?

[00:21:36] Craig: Ooh.

[00:21:37] David: Yeah. So that was a fun experience for me. I did get down on my knees and suck his cock a little bit. I didn't do it for very long. I thought about sort of reaching up and playing around with his body more, but we were in a semi-public place and I didn't really want to risk getting caught, so I didn't do anything like that.

But anytime people talk about like muscle worship or body worship at the gym, I always remember that. . Fun, unexpected little event that happened to me personally. That was fun.

[00:22:10] Craig: All right. Encounters like that are always so good when it just sort of happens and there's electric in the air and you're just sort of making that instant connection

[00:22:20] David: Exactly. Yeah.

[00:22:22] Craig: and it, yeah. I mean, if we're sharing stories about the gym, I always think. One of the funnest experiences I had was for my birthday my partner got me a session with one of my friends who was also a personal trainer.

[00:22:40] David: Mm-hmm.

[00:22:41] Craig: Like big guy, muscular, like you say. And it was a regular workout session. Like he was telling me how to do stretches, telling me how many like reps do on a machine, what our workout cycle was. And then halfway through we started get talking about like stuff like forced workouts and is like, okay. And he literally pulled a chain out his pocket and put it around my neck

[00:23:05] David: Wow.

[00:23:08] Craig: Yeah, and this is the thing, the, and from that point, like the air was electric, but what was physically happening didn't change. It was just him talking, taking me through a workout routine. But just him doing that action of putting the padlock and chain around my neck completely changed the context.

[00:23:31] David: Mm-hmm.

[00:23:31] Craig: did this extra energy to it and later on we did indeed go and share a shower cubicle, showering up.

[00:23:40] David: Nice. But yeah, I mean, to tie all of this back to the idea of muscle worship, like you said, I, I don't think that what happens in a muscle worship scene when you're talking about a, a kinky scene, Differs all that much from someone who is just enjoying the body of their partner in any sort of sexual play. But what does make a difference is the context and the psychological side.

This idea that one person is worthy of admiration and worship because of the state of their body and because of all the energy and effort that they have put. and another person is noticing and appreciating that and can't get enough of that person's muscular body. I think that's the context that makes it a muscle, A muscle worship scene and exactly how that plays out is almost irrelevant.

It's more the context that matters.

[00:24:42] Craig: Oh totally. It, it is that dynamic that pulls on people's sort of beliefs around body and recognition of effort. Cuz you know, a lot of these guys who do like the muscle worship videos, as we've said before, they're not. They're like really rare, like to get yourself into that state takes pretty much dedication.

That takes up a massive chunk of your life.

[00:25:15] David: It's true. Yeah.

[00:25:17] Craig: and I do feel like we should put a disclaimer here because obviously like gay men body standards, like standards of beauty musculature Yeah, like all bodies are beautiful. Like I personally very much like bears. But there is just something specific about having a body that is that rare and hard to obtain being in front of you that really adds this sort of drive to it.

[00:25:45] David: Absolutely. Yeah. So like when we're talking about a muscle worship scene, that's something that could even happen like in the middle of normal everyday life. It doesn't have to be a like full on naked looking and slobbering over the biceps sort of a scene. Just noticing that someone else, someone that you know or play with regularly, noticing their body, noticing their muscles, and giving their bodies some positive attention.

That could be a muscle worship scene all on its own, and you could do that in front of other people and it wouldn't be a big problem.

[00:26:27] Craig: Oh yeah. Like I've seen those moments where someone goes, Hey, your biceps looking really good and like physically reaches over and starts to squeeze them. And the guy whose biceps is getting squeezed, like automatically just sort of like does the bicep pump.

[00:26:41] David: Yes. Yes. I mean, This is one of these cases where I really, really want more people to give and receive compliments more freely, because that's really what this is all about. It's about recognition and appreciation of someone's body and of the effort that they've put into it. and you should absolutely have control over who's allowed to touch and play with your body and who isn't.

But if someone just casually mentions like, wow, you're looking really good. Your biceps are incredible, or your back muscles are huge, like, take the compliment because people feel better when they give compliments and feel better when they can receive them without too much. without too much worry about it.

Like it's just noticing and acknowledging the effort that's gone into it.

[00:27:35] Craig: Mm-hmm. . And there is also a sort of further point from that, which is some muscle worship scenes are about essentially the sub in that situation, having to earn the honor of worshiping the muscles. Like they're not allowed to do it straight away. They're kept at a distance and it's like, you've got to beg enough, you've got to compliment me enough, and then you would be allowed to do it.

[00:28:00] David: That can be really hot for sure. Which actually has some really interesting ties to something that you talked about on an earlier episode about the idea of dominant guys in a scene who are in chastity, where the dom is self-lock and the sub has to earn access to the dom's cock. , which I always thought was a really, really interesting dynamic and really fun sort of reversal of the traditional roles for this sort of thing.

[00:28:33] Craig: Oh yeah, I, so I believe that was actually our episode on Cat Play. But yeah, that yeah, that's like you, that reversal and that sort of playing about with tropes and expectations can be really exciting and fun.

[00:28:49] David: Absolutely. Yeah. You can also turn it into a situation where you're objectifying someone based on their muscular body, like this idea of statue play, which comes up a lot in erotic hypnosis. Of course, the idea of taking someone who is a normal moving, breathing person and with a post hypnotic suggestion, freezing them in place so that they are unable to move, and in effect they're like a living statue.

That can be really, really fun with someone's, with someone's whose body is really. What's the word? Someone whose body is really extreme in some way. Whether that is extremely muscular or extremely large or extreme in whatever way that is exciting to you. To be able to take someone like that and to freeze them, pose them, touch them, play around with their body in whatever way that you want. and know that they can't do anything about it until you release them, can be a really, really hot.

[00:30:02] Craig: Oh yeah, it, it, it very much flips it on its head cuz you know, we've talked about the muscular person being the dom and this, it flips it on its head and like you are there to be objectified. You are there to be played with you and all this effort is basically there for a dom, a dominant, or someone to enjoy and take advantage of.

[00:30:25] David: Exactly. Which incidentally, if any incredibly muscular guys want me to play with and enjoy their body let me know cuz that sounds like a fun scene to me.

[00:30:37] Craig: Yes, I can highly recommend playing with this gentleman. He is very, very good.

[00:30:43] David: good boy.

[00:30:45] Craig: Thank you sir. So, yeah, while we're talking about muscular subs, I think we should, we ha do have it on our list to talk about forced workouts.

[00:30:56] Forced Workouts

[00:30:56] David: Yes, and we've already gone into this topic somewhat, but I think that the idea of a forced workout in this sense is taking someone who. Wants to work out in the abstract, but finds it difficult to sum up the motivation and the drive to do it in the moment and puts the, puts the the drive in the hands of the dominant

[00:31:21] Craig: Mm-hmm.

[00:31:22] David: to say, you are going to do this workout now because I say so, because I am exerting my power and control over you.

And that's what makes it fun and exciting for the sub as. Knowing that they're doing this, not just because the sub wants to, but more importantly because the dominant has ordered them to do so.

[00:31:43] Craig: Oh yes. Like again, it's adding, you're taking something very normal and just adding a context to it, which changes everything internally.

[00:31:51] David: Mm-hmm.

[00:31:52] Craig: I also feel like a lot of people into force workouts are very much, a lot of masochists do it,

[00:31:59] David: interesting. Why do you say that?

[00:32:00] Craig: so a lot of it is the abdominal deliberately push you to the point where you're uncom.

and a lot of it is either through encouragement or the threat of punishment to sort of like, you know, do one last rep or make sure you do it with this weight or reach this goal.

[00:32:20] David: so that sounds a little bit more like a sort of coach fantasy to me. Actually, that's not quite the same thing as a forced workout in my mind. That's more about. . Having someone who you look up to and respect encouraging you and ordering you to push your limits just a little bit further than you thought you could. me that is similar but not quite the same as a forced workout. For me, that's more about adjusting how far you can go during the workout. But a force workout is more about the dominant saying, now it's time for you to do this workout and you're going to do it in the way that I say you.

[00:33:01] Craig: Yes. I think that's very true. And obviously you can also have the element like you started off talking about, which is the DOM watches you do it,

[00:33:10] David: Mm-hmm.

[00:33:11] Craig: you are acting under the instructions and you are being observed for their pleasure.

[00:33:17] David: now. I've said that I have told people to work out so that I could watch them do so in the past, and that is true, but I have not really done a forced workout scene. To my mind because I am still learning about how to do an effective workout, and I am very aware of all the things that I still don't know or the things that I have a very tenuous knowledge of.

And so I am definitely not going to be the sort of person who can sort of act as a kinky personal trainer, as it were. I would love to be. I think that would be a cool position to be in, but I don't feel like I'm in that position yet, at least.

[00:34:00] Craig: Yeah, and that's an interesting point because one of the things I know people have, trying to find a dom to do this with is the people that really have that knowledge base are sort of. people who in their day jobs are personal trainers and physiotherapists and that line of work and s often that kind of ma means they don't want to do it in an erotic context.

It's their day job.

[00:34:26] David: Yes. I mean, what I've done in the past is I've tried to take people who already have an idea of what they should be doing during a workout and just ordered them to do your workout, and I'm going to watch and make comments while you're doing so. because that way I'm allowing them to select what that means to them.

I'm allowing them to decide exactly what happens during the workout because they have more knowledge of it than I do. I would love to get to a point where I can push them more directly, but as you point out, like if I really wanted to earn that knowledge properly, that means doing a lot of study in terms of how the body works and how to do a.

In, in the sort of thing where like, I don't know this very well to the point that I have hired a personal trainer for myself. So trying to figure out what's the best way to guide someone else through this is a tricky question, but I can certainly try to. Provide the context and the, the history of what I've gone through in, in a way that might help them a little bit to say, well, when I've been doing workouts, I've done it this way.

I don't know if that's going to work for your body type, but you could try it this way. And by the way, I want you to do it this other way so that you show off your body more so that I enjoy it while you're working out.

[00:35:52] Craig: Oh yeah. I mean, one of the fun things is having to take photos or video while you're working out.

[00:36:01] David: Yep.

[00:36:01] Craig: Particularly if you're doing it from a fun angle, like I have very much on the days when my gym is a bit more empty, which sadly is rarer and rarer these days was setting up on the squat machine and putting my phone camera on the floor so I could fill myself, like directly squatting my ass down onto the camera. And that proved very popular with people

[00:36:24] David: I wonder why

[00:36:28] Craig: of. Speaking of a, that does bring in one of the things I've seen with erotic workouts or forced workouts is adding in stuff like a lot of the time, chasity cages are very appreciated if you're doing it naked and butt plugs with obviously is recommended with like, on those like leather harness straps to keep the butt plug in place because doing squats, you know, it's likely to pop out.

[00:36:56] David: Yes,

[00:36:58] Craig: yeah.

[00:36:58] David: definitely fun ideas. Those are not things that I personally have experimented with, but maybe something I'll be doing in the future.

[00:37:06] Craig: Oh yeah. Like I can imagine like having to go through the motions of your body slowly and carefully while also feeling like a butt plug in place probably does add a very big extra dimension to it.

[00:37:22] David: You haven't tried this yourself?

[00:37:24] Craig: Not yet.

[00:37:26] David: Well, you officially have an order for me to do so the next time that you have an opportunity to do so,

[00:37:32] Craig: Yes, master.

[00:37:34] David: good slave.

[00:37:35] Craig: Thank you. Master anyway. Yes, always a danger of having you on the show.

[00:37:45] David: you're welcome.

[00:37:47] Craig: My pleasure.

[00:37:48] David: Mm-hmm.

[00:37:49] Craig: yes, that, just adding stuff like that, or even just a ball gag while they're working out. Massively changes things.

[00:37:55] David: Mm-hmm. . I always think it's really interesting when you can. kink to a situation in a way that other people don't have to be aware of, which is why I think that the working out with a butt plug thing is particularly interesting because as long as you're wearing a pair of dark shorts or something like that, nobody's going to know or care what you might be wearing underneath those shorts.

So you could literally even take a small butt plug with you. Put it in when you're in like a toilet cubicle or something like that in a public gym and do your workout that way, and that adds a whole extra dimension of doing this kinky activity in a public setting, which is also

[00:38:44] Craig: Oh yeah. Yeah. Is that sort of secret knowledge of something that go, that's going on with no one else around, you knows.

[00:38:52] David: Exactly.

[00:38:54] Practical dificulties

[00:38:54] Craig: I mean, that does lead quite nicely into one of the points we need to talk about, which is the practical difficulties of doing sort of any sort of kink erotic work in the gym. As James mentioned in his letter to us.

He has a small workout like bench setup at home, but like, ha, finding a space where you can do this privately with all the equipment is very difficult.

[00:39:24] David: That's true. Not everyone has a space where they can do it at home, and if you're, excuse me, if you're going to do this in a more public location, Then that certainly limits what you're able to do.

[00:39:40] Craig: Oh yeah, it, I know around London at least, there are two main venues I can think of. The first is the Fetish Daddy Gear Dungeon.

[00:39:50] David: Hmm.

[00:39:51] Craig: which they do have workout gear. They can set it up in there for you for stuff like erotic workouts. The other is there is a sauna called Sweatbox, and on the first floor of a sweatbox is a gym, and you get it as part of the D door pass into the sauna.

You can also use the gym facilities and I do believe. On certain times of day, they do have naked workout hours.

[00:40:21] David: Nice.

[00:40:23] Craig: Yes.

[00:40:23] David: Definitely something I need to check out at some point.

[00:40:26] Craig: Oh, definitely. Me too. I keep saying I'll do it. So next time you're over, let's go.

[00:40:31] David: Absolutely. But yeah, for, for people who don't have access to facilities like that, I think that. You can lean into, as we were talking about before, the context of what makes it a kinky workout rather than the, the trappings in the situation that go with it, which is to say maybe it's enough to have someone who you submit to order you to say, okay, you're going to go to the gym on these days at these times, and you're going to work out because it's what I want you to do. To everyone else around you. It appears that you're just a regular person going to the gym and doing a regular workout. Only you know this context that you are doing this because the guy that you submit to has ordered you to do this, and that makes it that much more interesting and fun. You can also do some kind of picture or video documentary like you were talking about before, taking pictures or videos of yourself and sending them to that person who you submit to.

and showing them, proving to them that you have followed their instructions. Maybe they're going to say, okay, I, I see what you did. I see that that last set wasn't that. Your form wasn't great, so do it again. Or maybe afterwards reviewing the videos and saying, I think you could have gone a lot harder.

Next time I want you to do that same exercise that you just did, but five more reps or something like, . So there's definitely ways that you can integrate this, even if you don't have a private space for it. It is harder granted, but it's still possible.

[00:42:16] Craig: Oh yeah. And there's something to be said for just having like a dumbbell kit. So I have one of the home dumbbell kits. It lives under the sofa when not in use. You got a lot of use through lockdown because obviously you couldn't go to the gym, but. Did workouts daily with it and yes, is perfect for when I am told you are going to do this naked and do like so many reps.

That's what I get out to do.

[00:42:42] David: Excellent. Yeah. At some point I need to buy myself some gym equipment that I can keep at home. For me, the, like going back to context the setting of being in a gym. Really helps me with my motivation and my focus. Like knowing I am here to work out and everyone around me is also here to work out, makes it a lot easier for me to actually follow through and do the things that I want to do because in the end, this is a decision that you're making.

It's a decision to say, I am going to spend the time and energy to try to improve my. And when you have all these other distractions around you, everything that is encouraging you to take a break, take a rest, go and do something else, spend your time watching a movie or something that makes it much harder to follow through on that decision.

[00:43:36] Craig: Oh, definitely. Like if we're going into advice for gym, I think it just helps. The main battle is getting through the door of the gym.

[00:43:48] David: Yeah.

[00:43:48] Craig: getting up when it's dark or raining or cold, or you've had a long day at work, like putting on your sneakers and going to the gym is the hardest part of it. And what I'll do is, for me, what I found helps is basically making a deal of myself.

Like you go and you do your stretches, and if you don't feel like doing anything more than that, you don't have. and 99% of the time I will go in on to do a full workout because I'm there, I'm warmed up and I've started to get into this head space and on the days where like I really am just exhausted, like cuz I've had days where like I've not slept properly, it's been busy and I just don't have the energy just going and doing the stretches saying, okay, at least I've stretched my body and I've kept the routine of going to the gym.

So I keep consistency.

[00:44:42] David: That's smart. I believe you when you say that the hardest part for you is getting through that door, but for me, the hardest part is something different actually. I was able to talk myself into going to the gym, but before I started working with a trainer, I would show up at the gym. I would change into my gym clothes.

I would walk out into the area where people working, were working out, and then I would say, so now what? I would have no idea of how I was supposed to use these machines or these weights, or. What I was supposed to do to accomplish a workout, whatever that means, and it really did take for me to find a personal trainer that I enjoyed working with, and to do not just like one or two sessions with him, but several sessions with a personal trainer to the point that I really internalized what it was that I was supposed to do at the gym and how these exercises were supposed to go and how my body was supposed to feel when I was doing them right.

and then I discovered that I was able to go to the gym without my trainer, and I would walk out onto the floor of the gym and I would say, okay, right. I remember last time I was with my trainer, it was like this exercise followed by that exercise, followed by this exercise. I can do this. That was the missing piece for me, just having someone walk me through this, not just once, but enough times that I could remember it when I went on my own.

and that really boosted my confidence in terms of knowing what to do at the gym. And it got to a point actually where I started getting excited about going on my own and thinking, okay, what do I remember and how far do I want to push myself? Because I get to make the decision about what exercises to do or not do and how much weight to use.

So I guess it's different for different.

[00:46:39] Craig: Oh, totally. Everyone's psychology is different and I think it's important cuz you know, this is January centric episode. We're talking about the gym. When you're starting at the gym, like finding out why you struggle with something is very important cuz everyone's different.

[00:46:59] David: Yeah. And for me, like even if we were trying to do a forced workout scenario, if I had a dominant telling me, okay, you're gonna go to the gym, you're gonna work out, I'd be like, I'd love to. How? Please teach me So knowing what works for you is really important.

[00:47:19] Craig: Oh, definitely. So I think. We've covered a lot of ground of this. The one thing I'd just like to bookend cuz I talk, we started off talking about how the gym can erotic and we're talking about motivation. One interesting thing I find is I find I work out better when I'm horny.

[00:47:42] David: Interesting. Tell me more about

[00:47:44] Craig: It feels like I have more motivation and energy in my body. Like when you're horny, you have this bubbling energy in your body and I can redirect it

[00:47:57] David: Yes.

[00:47:58] Craig: and it gives me that go to like really work my body and push hard in a way that isn't there if I'm not horny. Like I've ex, you know, I've experimented with this and it's like, well, what happens if I have a wink before the gym?

And it's like, definitely not as good.

[00:48:17] David: Hmm. So I don't know if this is the case, but I suspect that this has something to do with redirecting emotions in general. Like we were talking earlier about how there are some guys who just redirect their emotions into lifting weights. And that can be useful but not always healthy. I imagine that this is just a case of that this is a case of you taking your horny energy and directing it towards doing a stronger and more effective workout,

[00:48:52] Craig: very much

[00:48:53] David: which makes it another reason for me to continue to push you to go to the gym and to remind you that you're doing this because I want you to get a stronger body.

[00:49:03] Craig: Yes. Master

[00:49:05] David: Excellent.

[00:49:07] Craig: So, I think that's a good place to leave it, don't you?

[00:49:10] David: There's one other topic that I do want to talk about. Actually, going back to the letter that you mentioned right at the beginning, which is gym stereotypes important. Because like there are definitely a lot of porn videos that involve, like, the setup is two guys, or even multiple guys all working out in the gym and then somehow it turns into sex.

And that is wildly unrealistic. But at the same time, it does play on a lot of, I think, shared fantasies. Around men getting more primal in a sense, in a gym atmosphere. This idea of just, you know, stripping off your shirt working up a sweat, becoming this sort of more primal, more physical, more muscular man, which can be very, very erotic for people who eroticize muscular.

and I think that that does play a lot in different kinds of porn. And you can play around with those sort of tropes in your own sort of erotic workouts that you might do at home. You could certainly act out some kind of a porn scene, but. It is definitely, you know, there, there's a, there's a difference between doing a workout that is focused on working out and a workout that is focused on the lead up to sex.

[00:50:44] Craig: Oh yeah. And sometimes it, you've just triggered a memory that left quite an impression on me, which is, It was a short video clip, probably a gif actually. I came across and I've not been able to find it because you know, the internet is a sea and trying to find something is like a needle in the haystack.

[00:51:05] David: I thought the internet was a series of tubes.

[00:51:08] Craig: It is also that and it is also for porn. I'm reliably told by assault But yes, it was a gift of two very muscular men working out naked. And one was doing a pull down on a, like the pull down machine on the bench and the other, like his trainer was sitting on his lap to wait him down and as he was pulling down, the trainer was, and it wasn't in any way really erotic besides the fact they were both naked, like pointing out and pressing the muscles.

He should be engaging like directing these muscles. These muscles are the ones you need to like feel it in. and something about that image and series of motion was so powerful for me.

[00:51:53] David: I have not seen this video, but now I really want to, and I can totally see how it would be extremely erotic, like particularly because you're talking about two people who are naked and sharing that sort of body contact in a situation where someone is. Giving it their all, focusing more on the motions of their body and correspondingly less on what's going on in their mind, including the inhibitions that we normally have in our mind.

[00:52:22] Craig: Oh, yeah. Especially where it's tactile. Like if you are spotting someone or a personal trainer is like, no, you need to be engaging your outer muscle, and they're pushing and feeling that outer muscle to make sure you're doing it.

[00:52:35] David: Yeah.

[00:52:35] Craig: an intimacy you don't really find out in most of the world.

[00:52:40] David: Exactly, yes. It would be really great if you could find a personal trainer who was open to this sort of like, Sensual or erotic contact during a training session. Like, not that it should become sexual per se, but that but an understanding that this sort of body contact is not only allowed, but welcomed as a way of guiding and directing someone through their workout.

and if that takes on a sort of dom sub tone, then that's fine too. I wish that such a personal trainer existed, but I haven't found one like that yet. If you do find one, please let me know.

[00:53:24] Craig: Yes. I mean, if you are listening and one of these people, please write into the show. We have email, Twitter, master, Dawn, all the usual things because I'd be very surprised if someone hadn't done like an erotic personal trainer business at some point. Like it seems like a natural direction to try and go with it.

[00:53:47] David: it does. Yeah. I mean, it also seems like it would be tricky from a point of view of negotiating consent. , because there's the question of how far is it okay to take things not only from the perspective of the person being trained, but also from the perspective of the trainer. Because a personal trainer, even one who is okay with a certain level of sensuality, may not want the training session to sort of veer into a place that is more about sex specifically.

So I imagine that that makes it difficult to. To define exactly what is and is not okay in a situation like that. But difficult does not mean impossible, and I really, really think of the service that the service should exist.

[00:54:34] Craig: Yeah. So if anyone wants to give it a go, let us know. We'll freely advertise you on here,

[00:54:39] David: Absolutely.

[00:54:41] Craig: Yeah, so I think we're coming up to time now and this has been a

[00:54:47] David: Last time you said, I think we're almost done. And I said, let's do one or two reps more, and I'm glad that I did

[00:54:53] Craig: Yes. I mean, you are the boss,

[00:54:55] David: exactly.

[00:54:57] Craig: Ah. So, yeah. If people wish to find you, like I can highly recommend your hypnotism services and anything like that, where can they find you?

[00:55:04] David: I'm on Mastodon at harry hypnotist mastodon dot hypno guys.com. You can also email me. My email is harry hypnotist gmail.com and I'm on a couple of other online services as well. But honestly, those two are probably the best ways of finding me.

[00:55:22] Craig: Wonderful. And of course personally I am boot back club at on pretty much every service where you can find me. And obviously the show is kinky Boys Pod at Wolf Group on Master Dawn. We also have it same handle on Twitter and kinky boys pod gmail.com for. If you wish to contact us directly and we have a contact form on our website.

So yes, thank you very much for coming on. This has been very fun and

[00:55:53] David: been absolutely.

[00:55:54] Craig: and I hope the listeners here have had some good ideas. As always, listeners hope you've enjoyed and play safe.